Hey Great...all about the article and all these comments.

People forget....IRA...Terrorist..Christian

Khalistan Terrorists...Sikhs....Hindu Terror..

LTTE....All together..Did you know that LTTE is made up of Hindus, Christians and Muslims(less percentage)

Al - Qaeda..... Muslim terror

Old ages...u had muslim...greek...roman...jewish...lots of terrors..

What of Hitler,Stalin...Mao?

And what of the barbarians...never ending lists..

But why does the blood not differentiate?

Let us Humans get better and understand that we need to live and let live...maybe just maybe reach out and finish all those political and other questions that are tearing the world apart...

Hi Hariharan, Wa’d has some good pointers. These criminals are consequence of social disorder and lack of security control and not a religious backslash.

This is something we have been struggling with since SEPT 11, to understand when actions are religious founded, socially consequences or fanaticism (people who believe to be acting in name of faith but on doing so, goes against basic principals of the same).

eg:
Afghanistan: Fanaticism.
Pakistan: Social disorder.
Iraq: social disorder
Gaza: Social disorder
India: fanaticism.
Ireland: Fanaticism 0 which IRA has NOTHING to do with it. IRA is an independence movement and not religious.
Indonesia: Fanaticism.
Philippines: Social disorder.

To claim religious approach to violence, on this case Islam is to condemn the religion as a whole without serious evidence. I can contradict your claims by specifying that Libya, Egypt, Jordan, Syria and many other Muslim nations don’t suffer the same thing in name of religion.

PS: Al-Qaeda is NOT a Muslim Militia but militants trained to deal with issues of independence. Al-Qaeda do not represent Islam and you know this quite well.

@Robbie Z

Some Information about Al-Qaeda:

On February 23, 1998, Osama bin Laden and Ayman al-Zawahiri, a leader of Egyptian Islamic Jihad, along with three other Islamist leaders, co-signed and issued a fatwa (binding religious edict) under the banner of the World Islamic Front for Combat Against the Jews and Crusaders declaring:

[T]he ruling to kill the Americans and their allies - civilians and military — is an individual duty for every Muslim who can do it in any country in which it is possible to do it, in order to liberate the al-Aqsa Mosque (in Jerusalem) and the holy mosque (in Makka) from their grip, and in order for their armies to move out of all the lands of Islam, defeated and unable to threaten any Muslim. This is in accordance with the words of Almighty Allah, ’and fight the pagans all together as they fight you all together,’ and ’fight them until there is no more tumult or oppression, and there prevail justice and faith in Allah’.[69]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Qaeda

http://incognito73.instablogs.com/entry/islamic-sharia-condemns-afghan-men-to-death-for-translating-koran/

What do you say about this? I don’t see your comments on this story???

I don’t really have time to read the article now, but I can tell u from the title that some ppl should not be in power, and will burn in hell when it’s judgment time...now, at least I can be honest both ways, and I don’t stick to blindly supporting one side...
now... u enjoy hating Islam and Muslims, and don’t forget to write about it from time to time, just to get the negative energy out...While I’d rather go do something else; something more productive to be more specific...

bbyee :)

Yes Arvid... seek the Wikipedia... it will answer all your doubts...

Al-Qaeda is not a Muslim faction but use Islam to justify their actions of independence.

If Al-Qaeda was a religious based army, they would focus on converting people instead of making extreme social actions to gather attention. Al-Qaeda seeks fighters and not new conversions. The idea of ”Jihad” is just to gather confused Muslims since no other religion has this concept for start. It is convenient for them.

@ Indian...

Is necessary to understand that Islam has a fault like any other religion does and this is the lack of universal leadership (like the Pope for Catholics). Using Christians as an example, Christ has specified Peter as the man who leads the pack after his ascension. It left no doubt with a order of leadership through Christian and Western development.

Islam was the opposite. With the death of the prophet, groups with interest broke the idea of a religion into parts causing the division of the religion.

Until the present, Islam has no real/worldwide leader to establish boundaries to its followers, leaving the interpretation of the Qur’an to any Iman.

The Qur’an states that all Muslims must believe in God, his revelations, his angels, his messengers, and in the ”Day of Judgement”. Also, there are other beliefs that differ between particular sects. The Sunni concept of predestination is called divine decree, while the Shi’a version is called divine justice. Unique to the Shi’a is the doctrine of Imamah, or the political and spiritual leadership of the Imams.

The link you provided is just a regional opinion in order to concentrate power as men dis through history to control the blind.

Well I can’t speak for the rest of the world, but I can talk about Jordan, and I know that these people are being stopped and are getting what they deserve... what I don’t like is stereotypes and generalizations, as they are a couple of steps away from racism and discrimination... the sad thing is that some people don’t really have the full picture of what’s happening, and suffice by what they hear about one group of people, then generalize...

Peace cannot be created this way Ma’am... we need to open our eyes and start looking for the truth rather than make judgments based on half truths, whether from my or your parts of the world...

Have a good day :)

@Lynne K

”Yes its true they are criminals who hijack religion, but when it denigrates good muslims so much I don’t understand why the good muslims don’t weed them out.”

..........I am also baffled as to why there is no concrete steps on the part of better Muslims to marginalize dangerous elements from the society.I am of the opinion that external agents,belonging to different world other than Islamic,are of little help in curbing the growth of Islamic radicals.No need to state the fact that they run the risk of being labeled enemies of Islam.

Every one knows that there are good Americans but when will they come out and save the world?

Everyone knows that there are good Indians but when will they save ignorance and poverty in India? It’s obviously not that easy.

@ Charolotte

Herd mentality is always dangerous.A Muslim mind is generally in league with herd mentality!!!

Sorry ! Misspelled your name.

@ Charlotte

Herd mentality is always dangerous.A Muslim mind is generally in league with herd mentality

You say Whites, African American, Koreans, Puerto Ricans, Columbians (and I assume everyone is your point) are all capable of ”Group or Crowd Mentality”.

But your problem is that Muslims do this too?

Arvind, please spare us. What a generalised and racist comment of yours.

Quoting: ”Muslim mind is generally in league with herd mentality!” - what a silly thing to say about anyone.

Is clearly your opinion is note based on facts but in your national pride against Pakistanis for example. I have been reading all the comments and you are targeting Pakistanis for their religion and using arguments discarded as ’Muslim’ atrocities.

You are just playing he India/Pakistan card. If you were seriously interested to discuss religion, you would at least give some credibility to good Muslims for start.

@Robbie NZ

”Is clearly your opinion is note based on facts but in your national pride against Pakistanis for example.”

First shatter deep conditionings of your mind that makes you perceive all my comments as anti-Pakistani.Are all the Muslims living in Pakistan or do you think Pakistan is representative of Muslims across the globe?

Get real.Open both your mind and eyes.

@Incognito

....And when others (read non-Muslims) start condemning such beastly acts they become the qualified Islamic haters !!!They are perceived as people dangerous to the growth of Islam. It’s really difficult to kill the primitiveness existing in Muslim mind.

@Arvind: I do believe the discussion over here is pretty heated, but at least we are all respectful of each other, I hope u can do the same... a statement like the one u just gave: referring to my ”primitiveness”, is one that I find real insulting... now if u can’t discuss things with respect, DON’T... I was trying to convey to you guys what is happening in my opinion, now we don’t have to agree to each others opinions, but we don’t have to insult each other either...

try to keep that in mind for the future, it might help u in further human-kind of contact...

Wa’d...

Just don’t try it... Blind still blind after the day becomes night.

Wa’d

Sorry! I did not intend to hurt your feelings. But at the same time I cannot ignore the ground realities. There are all types of people within a community. I too hate silly categorization or generalization. I have no problem with Muslim community.

Some of my best friends are Muslims and they sound ”secular” and ”progressive” too!! But is that the reason enough to ignore the ills (read primitiveness) prevailing in the Muslim community?

Probably, some of the wise commentators on IB and elsewhere, though they claim themselves to be icon of progressiveness, will never be able to understand that I am neither anti-Muslim nor anti-Pakistani.

I would have been saying the same thing if I were a Russian or British .Fortunately, I am an Indian..ha..ha

Like to present an example to prove that when I use the word primitiveness, I really mean it. Recently pulse polio campaign was organized by the State authorities in Allahabad. However, Muslim clerics spread the rumour that it was Anti-Muslim. Result: None of the Muslim women allowed the officials to provide polio drops to their children.

Sadly, there are many examples of this type. Should I ignore such developments? I have also read cases where older people are getting married with very younger girls in Muslim community. But no one is opposing it .Who will dare to defy the Shariyat ?

Isn’t it sign of primitiveness that a mere cartoon is enough to make Muslims go berserk all over the world?

Isn’t it sign of primitiveness that Salman Rushdie has to spend most of his life in exile?

Isn’t it sign of primitiveness that Tasleema Nasreen has to take shelter in some other country because of her progressive writings?

Isn’t it sign of primitiveness that a book was refused to be published by the publisher simply to keep “frogs of the well” within Muslim community happy? In other words, all that keeps the frogs of well happy is okay. Anything, that is not on par with their likes and dislikes is simply not tolerable!!!

Arvind... I have to start with thanking you for trying to explain what u wrote up there...
Now... I do know that there are some groups in India where men don’t mind marrying their own nieces... Do I think that’s OK? Hell NO... but do I judge YOU based on that piece of information? Hell NO...
what I am trying to say here is that we can both pull out dirty laundry of each others cultures, but that’s no healthy way to discuss things here...
I don’t want to be judged based on the actions of uneducated people in my culture or religion, and I wont judge u based on the same angle...

anyways, again, I appreciate ur explanation...
have a pleasant evening :)

@Wa’d

I am not interested in pointing an accusing finger at anyone.But you cannot be a mute spectator if ”actions of uneducated people” become cause of worry for others.Remember,’one dirty fish will make the entire pond dirty’.It’s time to weed out such dangerous elements from the society.A swift and surgical operation is needed to prevent innocents from being eliminated at the hands of extremists.If interventions of others appear ”outrageous” and ”barbaric” what has prevented people from Muslim community to tame these ”uneducated” beasts within their community.If they are really bothered over rise of these extremists , why they don’t just take concrete steps for their total elimination ?It’s you inability and ambiguous stand that’s allowing others to place you ,along with your motives, in the dock.

Our motives? Hmmm.. I choose not to even try to understand what u think OUR motives are... But I have to wonder though: Y doesnt ur government do something concrete about ur issues? I know my country is doing a lot, and is successful in what its doing!!! and guess why we’re successful!!! it’s bcz we treat them like the criminals they are, rather than blame a whole religion for all the S**t that happens in our country...

I don’t want to sound nasty here Arvind, as I very much appreciate a polite conversation, so take this as an advice, and try to change ur attitude towards what’s happening in the world today, for ur own country’s sake, for ur own people’s sake.. stop the ”Group Vs. Group” kind of thinking, and start thinking about them as criminals rather than part of ”their group”...

Now, If u don’t like what I said here, then I guess we agree to disagree... This article has taken way too much time and energy from me... I have studying to do...

Peace... regards...

Wa’d

Wa’d

First get above the impression that I am talking about country-specific issue.Islamic terrorism is a global issue.It’s not going to be solved by mere change in attitude.It will need a proper strategy.It’s not we but people on your part see it as a clash of civilizations instead of perceiving the collective effort of global forces as an attempt to weed out the terrorists.This sort of hue and cry is being raised by the Muslims.Their response is mired in paradoxes.Take a step.You are accused of being anti-Muslim.Don’t take a step.It allows the Islamic radicals to butcher people across the globe.

Why the Muslims perceive war on terror as an attempt to eliminate Muslims and not an attempt to eliminate terrorism ? Why are they all the time under grip of panic whenever one talks about elimination of terrorists?

Why has terrorism struck intimate chords with Islam and not with any other religion ?

Islamic terrorism is not a country specific issue.It’s a global issue.It has nothing to do with change in attitude.

”Why the Muslims perceive war on terror as an attempt to eliminate Muslims and not an attempt to eliminate terrorism ?” HUH??? DID WE BOTH READ THE SAME ARTICLE?
The guy up there was attacking Islam as a religion... REREAD...

Now I have to go study... SERIOUSLY this time :)
seeyooo

Wa’D, My point was that I find it interesting that rarely (if ever) has Muslim C.J. on I.B. ever written an article condemning something like this. Sure you can say you condemn it in an article, but it’s interesting you rarely generate articles about such things.

I don’t see you writing about American crimes in Iraq or anywhere else either... lots of women got raped by the American army, lots of civilians were killed by the American army, members of the army told nasty stories about what happened there... But I guess that doesn’t count. We Muslims need to take actions, but that’s just about it, huh!!!

Again I have to say:
One hand does not clap...

we lived in a F***ed up world where no one wants to see what they are doing wrong,, just what the ”ENEMY” is doing wrong...

SAD

I’d like to bring to your notice some of my previous articles...

http://srinidhi.instablogs.com/entry/the-truth-of-iraq-war-is-finally-out/

http://srinidhi.instablogs.com/entry/price-of-iraq-war-is-it-worth-it/

Don’t tell me or anyone about objectivity. In my knowledge I have found that only Islamic Terrorists are capable and cold blodded to kill someone just because they don’t follow Islam.

I am yet to come across Muslims who openly denounce Islam’s core ideology which preaches its adherents to kill ”Kafirs”. Will you do that?

In Twelver Shi’a Islam, however, Jihad is one of the 11 Practices of the Religion.

Jihad has two possible definitions: the greater, which is the spiritual struggle of each man, against vice, passion and ignorance. This understanding of jihad has been presented by apologetics of modern times, but is an understanding of the term rarely used by Muslims themselves.

The lesser jihad is simplified to cover holy war against infidels and infidel countries, aiming at spreading Islam. This kind of jihad is described in both the Koran and in the hadiths.

Koran sura 9: Repentance
41 March ye then, light and heavy, and fight [jāhidū] strenuously with your wealth and persons in God’s way; that is better for you if ye did but know!

Muslim law has divided the world into two entities, dar al-islam, the abode of Islam, and dar al-harb, the abode of war. Battling against the Abode of war was a duty for a Muslim, as this is the only way for the peace of Islam to take the place of the warlike conditions of the infidels’ society. Jihad can be both defence, as well as attacking an enemy.

Read more on:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kafir
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jihad
http://i-cias.com/e.o/jihad.htm

I don’t need to read about Islam online thank you very much...

Islam did not tell me to kill anyone... THAT, I know for sure... to be more general here, God did not tell anyone to kill anyone, Islam is a religion that God sent, just like he sent other religions, and no I don’t believe that Islam should conquer the world,,surprised? don’t be, I guess there are certain parts in Quran that u did not read, or u mistranslated... again...I am sure SOME Muslims don’t agree with me here, but I don’t care, cz, just like you, they don’t understand the true core of Islam...

All I was saying is STOP stereotyping, and STOP generalizing, is that too much to ask for?

@ Indian

Again, its another attempt to release your nationalistic frustration over Pakistan by condemning all Muslims of the lack of your social capacity on controlling your own territory.

I assume you have never met a real Muslim or Christina in your life. perhaps a Jew or a real Shinto? You probably never had a chance to compare and dis fruit the benefits of a civilised coversation without having to compare, condemn and persecute. I am sad for you. And now, you want to write articles about things you don’t know at all or ever experimented for start... Like many others here with their political agendas in first than their own common sense.

Eyes open.

Peace and understanding starts with a single person,,a person who stands up and says NO MORE!!! Let it begin with me,,white american woman and i say NO MORE VIOLENCE NO MORE ABUSE OF MY FELLOW MANKIND, NO MORE HATE this is my solemn vow,, IT has to start somewhere,,let it begin here,,and now,,,in this forum Please,,Let it begin HERE In a message dated 2/6/2009 1:56:26 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,

A very nice idea Charlotte, but in the process you might as well want to consider a tattoo for all the parts of this problem rather than sticking to one part, cz u know, there are other parts...oh well, maybe u don’t, but I do know...

Every action has a reaction... I bet u know the rest!!!

so u might want to look for the regimes that are causing such losers to rebel...

we just love blaming one part and getting it over with, don’t we... life aint that simple dear... and if we REALLY want to see real change happening, rather than have fun talking about it, then we need to look at the bigger picture...

have a pleasant day everyone :)

Good Muslims dont fight back against this sort of violence because those who are this violent may turn that violence on them,,there is little to no protection for anyone against the ”BAD” Muslims,,,and it BITES to live in fear no matter who you are,,The most powerful people (as a group) are the violent ones,,they prove time and time again they care about no one,,,they will hurt and mame their own just as easily as there ”enemies”,, Until we the people who are ”good” become the people who are ”BAD” we dont stand a chance,,it wasn’t the ”MEEK” who will inherit the earth its the ”MEAN” In a message dated 2/6/2009 11:31:00 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,

@Arvind, .”I am also baffled as to why there is no concrete steps on the part of better Muslims to marginalize dangerous elements from the society” because many are in denial.

Well i agree there,,but i still feel we have to start somewhere,,,maybe we could just herd the bad guys into one corner of the earth somewhere build a wall at least a mile high,,and let them stay there,,,but its so hard to tell the good from the bad,,its not stamped on their forheads,,gee maybe that’s the answer,,,a tattoo that says,,AzzH*** In a message dated 2/6/2009 11:34:11 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,

yes and the sad part is like you said,,,they say they are doing Gods work,,,LET HIM DO HIS OWN DIRTY WORK,,he wants them to love and yet,,he stands there and LETS this go on,,,i kinda think of him as an Absentee landlord,,,now where did i hear that phrase In a message dated 2/7/2009 12:29:03 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,

LOL,,,OK I’m sorry Charlotte, but sometimes I just can’t control my sarcastic mood :P

what I was trying to say earlier is that the whole world is messed up, not just those extremists, but also politicians finding excuses to kill people in my part of the world. and so we end up all killing each other, which I believe no1 really wants...

Anyways,I feel like by the end of the day we do agree on the very main point here. WE NEED TO CHANGE OURSELVES. we can’t keep blaming each other for all the S**t happening in this world, cz we are all guilty of it... as you said: Change should start from within.

Agreed??? agreed... :)

Peace...and many respects...

Wa’d :)

your missing the point,,yes its a stupid idea,,,on a lot more levels than one,,,but then so is discrimination so is racism based on color,,,so is classifying every body in a particular group or cult as one thing or another,,its pretty stupid to think you can judge an entire group on a few,,go ahead,,pick out the babies you want to tattoo with bad guy or good guy,,there is no one person or one group to pin things on,,we have to change,,,,what is it i mean,,we have to change what we CAN CHANGE,,,ourselves,,anti everything begins with ME,,,oh well if you dont get it now,,,im going to shut up because obviously im not very good at wording my self In a message dated 2/7/2009 3:52:39 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,

Very well said... :)

LOL,,, oh ur wise... forget about the dye... ur previous comment says you are ;)

Good night to u... its noon around here... talk later ;)

RobbieNZ: ”Can you conquer yourself before trying to convincing others of your righteousness?” Problem is, there are certain religious adherents who believe theirs is the only way, and whose ultimate goal is to force everyone else to believe the same way. They are trying to force others to believe in their rightness and righteousness, how does one deal with that?

you know what dawned on me,,we are all in different places,,,and just TALKING,,,ok typing,,,we have no idea where the person is or what the persons perspective is,,and maybe we would not be so easy to talk if we knew,,but right now,,as we stand,,we are communicating,,isnt that something,,no guns,,,no violence,,just pure communication,,,wouldn’t it be nice if the world leaders did this exact same thing,,,and why aren;t they?? In a message dated 2/7/2009 4:19:45 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,

ok can ya tell im not ON the website writing,,,there i can see where everybody is from,,,ok,,,im a blonde,,,i have to dye my hair brown for artificial intellegence In a message dated 2/7/2009 4:19:45 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,

Charlotte, You are absolutely correct. The change HAS to start with the individual.

yes exactly,,,and we cant keep saying the other guy needs to ,,,whatever,, we have to do the WHATEVER ourselves,,if we want to be accepted as WE are then we must accept they and THEM who they and them are,,There is no reason for this kind of anger and hate to perpetuate itself,,,,have you seen the movie,,,Independence Day,,,i can not imagine anybody hasnt but,,in making the point,,WHAT IF,,,aliens from another planet came to earth to kill everybody on it and take it over for themselves,,,would that end the battles between countries? im willing to bet it would,,so what must it take,,and invasion from outer space to make peace here? ok so that’s over simplifying it a bit but im sure you get my point,,A real common goal must be REAL for everyone,,and again,,,that begins with our willingness to accept,,anyway,,its 5 AM here and i havent been to bed yet,,im sure we will talk again,,good nite,,or good morning or ,,whatever your having,,, In a message dated 2/7/2009 4:50:07 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,

Oh do see it,,its wild but it makes a valid point,, In a message dated 2/7/2009 8:56:39 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,

OF COURSE,,its human nature,,EVERY GROUP does it,,Its unfortunate but true,,one person alone has not got the courage to do viscous things this way,,oh sure you have rogue nut jobbers,,,but on the whole,,it takes a group to stir up enough animosity to create this kind of viscous behavior. Its the cheering crowd that prods at the inners of a person to provoke this ,,,one single person is usually to scared to move let alone do this kind of horriffic behavior,,and i am sure somebody will disagree with me and start to jump,,but,,then that’s their prerogative but i could walk down the street in any town anywhere and be just fine,,,until a crowd of people see me,,alone,,,and there is most definitely going to be a problem,, Now in the NORMAL mentality,,it may just be obscene words,,,or maybe even a bunch of smoochie sounds,,and the like but the fact is if any one of them were alone sitting on a stoop,,,my passing would just be that, maybe a smile or a nod in my direction,,,but nothing to worry about,,till i round that corner where the group is standing just goofing around,,now combine that with even a HINT of racism,,and im one screwed pooch!! In a message dated 2/7/2009 9:19:17 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,

Each person interprets their beliefs in a different way,,each religion sees GOD in a different way,,GOD DOES NOT CAUSE WARS,,any and every GOD on the planet is a god of peace and love and understanding,,Every version of God says LOVE YOUR FELLOW MAN,,,But mankind choses to believe they are the only ones to interpret the words of their version of GOD to mean something else,,and that interpretation has already been passed down from mouth to hand to hand to mouth for thousands of years,,sit in a group,,whisper something in the first mans ear,,by the time it gets all the way around and back to you you will see it is very different from what you ACTUALLY SAID,,,i blame no one,,i say we need to make allowances for differences in interpretation of the WORD OF THE GODS,,yes i said GODS,,,oh and while we are on the subject,,,GODDESSESS,,,,see if that doesn’t put a wrinkle in your pants,,, In a message dated 2/7/2009 10:45:33 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,

(:

Money in the bank brings pleasure to many.

Amerindians: Let me see... your own (all the North-American tribes over the last 200 years). The Canadian Indians (see the oil-pipe (British Columbia), The Central American tribes (see Nicaragua and Honduras CIA sponsored guerillas), Venezuela and Bolivian natives in 1960s. I could also bring the sponsoring of Pinochet in Chile, Strasser in Paraguay and the direct funding of Brazilian and Argentine Military coups to interrupt the democratic processes to these nations and stop development (which would cause a direct confrontation to American Hegemony at the time). All these killed in the process thousands of civilians and indigenous people.

... Since you live in Florida... Have you ever wondered what happened to the local natives? (:

You simply say Blessings on you and yours,,and you walk away,,i do it with even my own mom who is a STAUNCH Religious Finatic,,,doesn’t like my religion and she can almost come to blows with me over it,,but,,we have agreed to disagree,,,she said it is not mandatory that i agree with her,,but it is that i at least listen,,,so,,i listen,,and then i say love you mom and hang up the phone,,,(thank goodness she lives over 1000 miles away,,,but it is our job,,we the individual who must rise above,,,be more spiritual and religious and move the heck on,,, In a message dated 2/7/2009 11:35:43 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,

I read it,so,,discuss it,,whats the problem as YOU see it,,,please,, In a message dated 2/7/2009 11:52:35 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,

Your words written here will be surprisingly effective,,dont think you are doing nothing,,you are not,,you are opening the lines of communication between many people and i myself think that’s wonderful In a message dated 2/7/2009 12:06:57 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, 410266_19 546_582538_comments@instablogsinc.com writes:

hey hun,,,are you swinging from trees? running around naked,,or picking your nose and eating it?,,,well then i dont think any of us are primitive,,primitive is as the monkeys in the jungle,,the cavemen of many years ago,,,i think your just fine,,, In a message dated 2/7/2009 12:37:08 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,

Hey Charlotte,

Its an irony that the ones who consider themselves as the elite ones (especially the ONE who thinks himself wise enough to categorize a whole section of this global society as primitive) are ignorant about their own evolution process. They can’t seem to forget their primitiveness and end up labeling any and all primitive who don’t follow their sick ideology.

BTW, I’m glad you found me okay ;-) Now I don’t feel like I’m a primitive intruding the private space of the evolved ones!

In a message dated 2/8/2009 01:59:08 A.M. Indian Standard Time

Lol some people are just barbaric and dont know the difference in terms,,,and yes i think your just fine,,, In a message dated 2/7/2009 3:29:32 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,

Oscar, You say ”I haven�t seen any PRO-TERRORISTS on this site”... well, that would depend on whether you consider HAMAS a terrorist organization (which many countries and the EU DO!) or not. If you don’t consider them terrorists, then no, there aren’t any pro-terrorists on this site. If you do consider them terrorists, which I do, then yes, there are indeed pro-terrorists on this site. and no-one is saying that all Muslims are evil terrorists, Oscar. when any of us write about this subject, at least I’ll speak for myself, we are targeting the extremists. if ordinary Muslims happen to think of themselves as extremist, get defensive and and are offended by what I write, that’s not my fault. But I will continue to shed light on the less positive aspects of religious fudamentalism, in whatever religion, and if it happens to be Islam, because most of the troubles these days happen to involve radical Islam, then I will do so. I suggest you read the Koran, Oscar and see for yourself.

Incog:

My wish is not to offend you or anyone else.

As for Hamas, I think, I would have to be there to know. I can read reports pro- and con-...it means nothing, as I am not there to know if ALL Hamas are terrorist or just the military wing..

The point of my comment was not to step on your toes. You do incredible amounts of research and I have enjoyed and respected your work many times over.

My point is we must take note on WHY Muslims are taking offense..I have NOT read the Koran, and to be honest, I doubt that I will...but I cannot imagine that the book in it’s entirety promotes TERRORISM, VIOLENCE, and Execution....or maybe it DOES..if so, why aren’t ALL Muslims radicals?

In my own bible, I can find by taking a different view, many ways to condone much of the horrific ways this world is interacting. but I DO NOT live by those views. I do not act upon them. Interrpetation, like beauty, is so ofton in the eyes of the beholder.



That’s all I’m trying to say...

I would like to see where you are reading because i dont see that here at all,,i see a bunch of people from all over the world who really agree that we are the WE who need to start the process of understanding and open communication,,i have not seen what you are seeing somehow,,i see people trying to understand each other,,oh sure the tempers fly a bit but not to the point of ignorance or self righteousness. In fact i see what i would expect to see in the U.N. or the dinner table,,Differences of opinion occur in the home too,,but we agree to disagree and simply discuss them,, In a message dated 2/7/2009 4:43:28 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,

On Killing Children.
The US military has killed a lot more kids than any terrorists. I don’t think any kids were killed in recent Mumbai attack.

It’s easy for all of us to shake hands and pat each other on the back in a chorus of ”hate the terrorists”. But I don’t really think that’s the issue.

For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction, physics 101. The US pays people 25 cents a day to make products in Pakistan or Bangladesh (actually, all over the place). We steal strategic resources from people. Prop up dictatorships (Saudi Arabia, etc.) and discriminatory states (Israel, etc.) Then we wonder why any one is against innocent Americans? Get real, we are not a superpower by our altruism.

Oscar, No offense taken whatsoever. .and you won’t ever step on my toes. I have a thick hide. I don’t take offense easily. And, besides, one should never fear stepping on toes..I refuse to live in fear, even though some would like us to. as for Hamas, I don’t think you can separate the 2. They are radicals, punto final. they are extremists, almost akin to the Taliban. They go around shooting at weddings because music is playing. they shoot at kids schools because boys and girls are playing together. not to mention using women and children as human shields. I have seen them admitting to it in videos. I appreciate your willingness to see the good, but the more videos I see, the more jihadi websites I visit and comments I see, the less I can. I have many times said that I believe people should be able to worship as they please. But I take great offense to a religion that wants to force me to worship as they do. to make me live in fear that I might offend them by saying the wrong thing, or doing the wrong thing. I just wrote a post about how Afghanistan (and NOT the Taliban) has condemned 2 men to death because they published a translation of the Koran that did not include Arabic. What the heck is THAT all about?! Again, this is not the Taliban, it’s the hardline clerics that took offense and want these men, including a fellow cleric, put to death. Muslim taxi drivers are refusing to give rides to blind people because of their seeing eye dogs, in Britain, in this country. Female medical students in Britain are refusing to scrub down because they will show their arms. They are refusing to use disinfectant gels when they visit family in hospitals, because it contains alcohol, in spite of the fact that British hospitals are trying to curtail problems with killer viruses. What is THAT all about. It’s just plain wrong. And I refuse to hide my head in the sand and think it will get better or go away, because it is only getting worse. And the difference is that few people act on those sections of the Bible. Whereas, the extremists... and I emphasize extremists (though there are far too many of them around) take those sections in the Koran to heart.

Ok now see that’s something i DONT understand,,why involve the children,,children no matter who’s are innocents,,i will NEVER understand using or shooting or hurting a child,,,any child, Children are the earths last best natural resource they are the future of the world,,and yet they get slaughtered every day,,for this on ANY SIDE or level i find no excuse,,no child should ever be hungry or lonely or in fear,,their entire job in the world is to grow and live and play,,to this i say HARM NONE!!!!! In a message dated 2/7/2009 6:20:12 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,

Religious people have killed a lot more people than atheists.

Though Nazi’s (secretly atheist) and Communist Soviet Union (openly atheist) don’t do a whole lot for the peaceful atheist argument.

Lynne K, ”I wonder if this �mother� has kids she wants to see blown to bits?” whether she does or not, there are plenty who do in Palestine. Just google it.

We dropped more bombs in Vietnam in one year than total bombs during WWII. We kill plenty of kids with ”Collateral Damage” in Iraq and Afghanistan every day or have you been reading the news lately (by that I mean last few years).

How many children were killed in Britain, Spain, Mumbai, Bali attacks? research the numbers. Actually, less than ten. We, Americans, kill ten kids every time we bomb a village in Afghanistan. Israel killed over 200 kids in Gaza last month. The news does not give total number of kids killed by the ”good guys” each month but research the numbers. We kill far more women and kids than terrorists.

We have a double standard. We couldn’t possibly kill women and kids so we don’t admit it and we stamp it out when someone brings it up.

IC, Al-Qaeda uses the idea of ”Jihad” for Muslims the same way US use the idea of ”terrorism” an ”Nationalism” to gather support and money from the congress. The concept is the same. You are just compelled to accept the American version because it suits your needs and views. Only because it favours your lifestyle.

IC, I like you and I will always will... But I won’t go against my nature to reinforce yours. Is already hard to defy my own personal conceptions in order to get a clear picture of an argument from both sides. It is not my intention to offend but to make clear my dissatisfaction which I expected a more ”transparent” understanding from your side towards this and any other matters. You have a hidden agenda and you sure won’t let go of it... What is quite sad, considering I expected more Humanity from you. ..Still liking you through... No matter the argument between us... (:

”And what about all the innocent kids that the insurgents kill in places like Iraq and Afghanistan, is that okay because they happen to be fellow muslims?”

Of course not. Take the wax out of your ears. What I was talking about was our killing of kids.

What about all the kids all the bad guys, Nazi’s, Communist’s, Terrorist’s etc., in the world have killed ?

They could kill a ten thousand. That has nothing to do with how many kids WE kill, especially if we’ve killed ten thousand too.

For some reason people believe that if our opponents do something bad we are absolved from doing the same thing. George Orwell described this a long time ago, ”double think.”

Why are Americans suppose to save the world,,,its a joint effort,,Im starting here,,,and now,,,With you In a message dated 2/7/2009 6:47:35 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,

Charlotte, ”Ok now see that�s something i DONT understand,,why involve the children,,children no matter who�s are innocents,” Have you never watched any of the Palestinian videos about what they do to their children? google Palestinian children + jihad + video... or better yet, go to youtube and search for Palestinian childlren + jihad. It’s very sad.

Me Enki, ”the US military has killed a lot more kids than any terrorists” Oh please! That is a totally lame argument. as for this... ”Then we wonder why any one is against innocent Americans?” So what about the terrorist attacks in Britain, Spain? Mumbai? Bali? And what about the terrorist attacks against other Muslims?? Come on... get real.

Excuse me Americans never stuck a grenade up some childs backside and sent them into a crowd,,they never strapped bombs to their bellys and sent them on their way,,so please note the difference In a message dated 2/7/2009 6:59:59 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,

RobbieNZ: ”Al-Qaeda is not a Muslim faction but use Islam to justify their actions of independence. If Al-Qaeda was a religious based army, they would focus on converting people instead of making extreme social actions to gather attention. Al-Qaeda seeks fighters and not new conversions. The idea of �Jihad� is just to gather confused Muslims since no other religion has this concept for start. It is convenient for them.” Not sure I agree, my friend. Al-Qaeda still has its roots in Islam and the quest for domination. Go to any extremist site and they will admit their goal is world domination. I flat out asked the admin on one such site and he said yes, because Islam is the only true religion, and these people aren’t terrorists hiding in their caves, for all I know they could be my neighbour, and I wouldn’t even know. If you watch any of the extremist muslim cleric videos, they all say the same thing. Even a kids show based on the Mickey Mouse character on Palestinian TV calls for the same thing, Jihad and Islamic world domination. If you want links, I will be happy to give those to you. As for conversions, they are happening all the time in US prisons, and for all I know all over the world. Otherwise, how do you account for it becoming the fastest growing religion in the world.

yer preaching to the choir hun,,, In a message dated 2/7/2009 7:25:19 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,

Me Enki, And what about all the innocent kids that the insurgents kill in places like Iraq and Afghanistan, is that okay because they happen to be fellow muslims?

Robbie, That’s your opinion my friend, we haven’t been in existence, as a country, for that long, so being responsible for the greatest amount of human deaths in the world. Doubt it. ”A nation with the meanness to kill and destroy for the simple pleasure of doing so, to try a new bomb, a new toy.” The simple pleasure of doing so? Pleasure? And what do you base this on? ”let�s talk about killing thousand of natives all over the Americas for land and oil occupation.” Uh, which countries and who did we directly kill? This country has made some major mistakes, and we have often supported the lesser of 2 evils, but we have NEVER killed for the simple sake of killing someone. And to compare death that occurs due to wars as opposed to flagrant, violence due to terrorism is just plain silly. I suppose now you’re going to say that AIDS was a vast US conspiracy as well? Robbie, Robbie, you do confound me.

I don’t condemn you my darling... I appreciate you over and over.. true... (:

Thanks for talking some sense to ’Incognito’.

He twists your statement ”... for economical and military benefits” to for the ” ... simple pleasure...” of killing.

Americans are a superpower. We have a refrigerator in the kitchen and a TV and Air conditioner in every room. None of these things are made in America. If people in the Third World got half of these things we would only be getting half of what we get. We get them by paying everyone else pennies on the dollar, propping up dictatorships (Saudi Arabia) and crushing their labor unions and democratic parties (the lesser of two evils). Try to tell us to give up anything and you must be evil. Try to tell them the realities of geo-politics and you must be ignorant. Ask them to research anything and they twist, turn and obfuscate.

Robbie, Do you not believe we have a problem with terrorism? Is it okay for them to go around bombing anywhere they please? It doesn’t suit my needs and lifestyle. I actually have many things in common with Muslims.. I don’t drink, don’t smoke, God is the center of my life, I pray and meditate every day. I don’t walk around showing practically all my private parts... BUT, I don’t judge those who do. I might not approve, but I’m sure as heck not going to tell them they can’t or they can’t do it in front of me. I’m not asking you to support what I say, Robbie, but please don’t condemn me for the opinions I do have. And please don’t tell me I don’t have humanity, just because I have no tolerance for a religion that has not tolerance for others that dont’ share their beliefs. Even amongst their own. My heart breaks every single time I read about another suicide bomb in Iraq that has massacred a bunch of innocent Iraqi civilians. and yes, they’re Muslims! I have said it a million times, and I will reiterate it one more time. I believe EVERYONE has the right to worship as they please, or not worship at all, but do NOT tell me that yours is the only true religion, and that goes for those Christians who claim theirs is the only way, as well. And don’t force me to adhere to your religious edicts. My agenda is not hidden, I have been very open about how I feel. I just refuse to hide my head in the sand. I think we are headed for trouble if we keep caving in. and if the fundamentalist ranks keep growing, as they seem to be. and so, like you, I can’t go against my nature to reinforce yours. I have done way too much research to change my mind. and, again, like you... no matter the arguments... I still like you as well. :-)

I DONT GIVE A **** !!! NO KILLING OF CHILDREN IS ACCEPTABLE TO ME...its hateful and cowardly and a disgrace to every religion every nation every person,,,i would rather let ME be blown to bits than to let one single child die,,,FOR ANY REASON,,,Colateral damage??? what the hell are children doing in the areas that are being bombed,,this is the problem with war,,,it is never fought between adults on open ground as it was in medevil times with MEN FACING EACH OTHER IN COMBAT as MEN,,,not hiding in towns where children should be safe and play,,,any soldier or footman or WOMAN who stands in the site of a child during war should burn in hell,,no child should be a shield nor a tool nor a weapon,,Children are all GODS ONE TRUE GIFT!!!,,wars should be fought out in the open maybe in desserts between adult enemies,,how dare ANY OF YOU JUSTIFY THE KILLING OF ONE SINGLE CHILD WITH THE ”HE STARTED IT” mentality,,you disgust me,,it is the one thing i will burn over,,,, THere was a story once about a man who was told to kill a child by his government,,i forget which,,and the man said but if i kill this child god will be angry with me,,and the government said,Then we will kill you instead,,and the man said then you will face god and you will feel his anger,,,i wont,,and i will not kill this child,,so they shot him,,they shot the child too,,,and for the rest of the soldiers life it haunted him and on his death bed he knew,,knew that the death of that one child condemned him for all eternity,,Be they americans or Jew,,or Afgani or WHATEVER,,,each man will pay for the death of that child,,,and children so go ahead,,justify it,,and one day you will face your Creator too,,Now,,,I am Wiccan,,,my religion is way different than yours,,but even we have a Father Creator and will one day face The God and Goddess,,,and i know i will not have that crime to account for,,WILL YOU??? In a message dated 2/7/2009 8:22:03 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,

Charlotte, See that’s the problem.. people want the U.S. to save the world, and yet when we do try we are condemned. it’s the classic damned if we do and damned if we don’t. And you’re right.. why should the U.S. The world should save itself and as you said, it starts with the individual.

Yeah Robbie, I do know what happened to the local natives.. .but since it was the BRITS who came here and colonized the U.S. i don’t take blame for that. As I said, the U.S. has often supported the lesser of 2 evils... but, we didn’t actually go in there and kill them ourselves.. there’s a huge difference. and you really think we do it for the money? sad. So, I guess we should stop sending all our aid to foreign countries (we just sent millions to Gaza) because we are so greedy and money hungry?

Robbie, Uhuh... :-)

WHO CARES!!! Who cares who the terrorists are,,they simply have to stop,,STOP STOP STOP and stopping means you,,,and me,,and joe blow over in china and the guy in the basement making bombs,,,and the guys in the sky flying the planes,,land them suckers and refuse to go on,,its everybodys responsibility to stop this senceless endless over done killing look at your wife your son your DAUGHTER,,,is this the world you want them to inherit? or do you want them to grow up in peace and love and light,,,you and i have to start it,,,we cannot leave it up to SOMEBODY,,,it starts here one person at a time if need be,,LOL JUST SAY NO!!!! In a message dated 2/7/2009 8:45:19 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,

I care... I would be an idiot if I didn’t care who is creating terrorism, right?

Robbie, Trust me, I have no interest in wearing a hijab. But I have actually met some very nice Middle Easterners and some very nice Muslims, however they are usually secular. Not sure what you are asking me when you ask who are the terrorists.. can you be more specific?

Yes IC. My question is: Who are the terrorists that are concerning you?

Oh for goodness sake Me Enki, we don’t crush their labour unions,.... they do it themselves... like Iran! and this ”he” is a ”she”. but you are right about buying cheap goods abroad, it’s shameful.. but I bet you buy things made in China and Taiwan.

Charlotte, ”Who cares who the terrorists are,,they simply have to stop,,STOP STOP STOP” I agree, but it ’aint gonna happen any time soon as long as there are fundamentalists out there.

ME ENKI, ”Who are all these �people who want the U.S. to save the world?� You have heard your own propaganda so much that you actually believe it.” First of all this was in response to someone who mentioned that.... and there are plenty of countries that do... if you bothered to read the news. I did much research for a play I was in about Bosnians.. they were praying for help from the U.S. and the rest of the world. I read the letters. So yes, there ARE.

I think the French wanted us to help in WWII and I’m sure the Bosnians wanted help but who in Afghanistan or Iraq wanted help?

Yes Enki, but you didn’t. US only engaged into war when attacked by the Japanese.

The Bosnians asked to be helped by the United Nations (which include 167 active members) and NATO. Not specifically the US. United States engaged on the opportunity to explore the failed Soviet block.

As for Afheganistan and Iraq... These people has never asked US for anything. In fact, they are quite displeased to have Americans invasion (Against United nations consent) of their territories.

I will give you the benefit that Afheganistan was worse then than now. But as Iraq, US has just made the things far, far worse... as it normally does when not minding their business.

AS for fact, Every empire falls and you Americans will be better off in the future when losing the idea of ”saving/helping and policing the world... which is not required. Imagine what your life will be when all the billions of dollars spent into military is used for healthcare, housing and ecological improvement? Then, US will be the place to be. (:

Robbie, Have you not been reading that the whole world is having economic troubles? And as I mentioned my comment was in response to someone mentioning about the U.S. saving the world. The comments on IB are never places in the right place and I have no patience to sift through all the comments on this post. And there are many who believe we should become isolationists, not send aid to other countries etc. and maybe that’s a good idea. But, then part of me feels that we should help those countries that need help. Sad that you hate the U.S. and Americans so much, Robbie. And actually CNN is very liberal, so I would leave that one out. And I don’t think anyone has ever said the U.S. is better than any other country. But...

IC, I know what your comment meant. I just used as an excuse to chain you a little... beside, I was bored and wanted to play with it for a while.

You forgot I am an Anthropologist / Psychologist. I know you didn’t meant on that way... I just like to see you argue with me...

..charming...

hmmm... I am suspicious of the Atlanta Lesbian Association... I think they are up to something no good...

Yes, I get the drift. (:

yes and how wonderful of us to be able to say so without being shot in the head,, In a message dated 2/7/2009 9:07:59 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,

Robbie, Well, the only ones currently causing any havoc. Haven’t heard from the Basque ETA in a while. The IRA stopped a while back. I think it’s pretty obvious, don’t you?

not true,,its,,,as long as there are people making excuses for the fundamentalist,,people who are willing to sit on their collective azzes and just do nothing,, In a message dated 2/7/2009 9:25:19 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,

Robbie, ”PS: and I still an Atheist!” Oh, maybe that’s the problem.. :-) P.S. very poetic, by the way.

LOL. True. I was born from a traditional Catholic family. My direct ancestors went to two crusades... ):

I studied in catholic schools all my life... then I reached the ”age of reasoning” and felt from God’s grace.

Sometimes I wish to have the faith that I once did. as 16 I was tempted to join the priesthood until I felt in love with the most amazing person I ever met in my life...

and here we are... talking about religion... while she is having a cup of tea with friends in our living room.

(:

First of all we are not OBLIGATED to help anyone,,when the twin towers went down who was there to help US? Second, we do help everybody,,which puts us in debt up to our collective butts,,, Third,,,we got into trouble helping others,,because some of the countries we were helping,,,half wanted to kill us have wanted to hug us,, Forth,,you are indeed correct in saying we should butt out and fix our own problems,,,but unfortunately we have HUGE HEARTS and feel we need to try for the sake of the people who HAVE ASKED US FOR HELP,,, do you really think we want our sons and daughters to head on out to foreign lands never to come home again? to die in a sweaty lonely dirty war torn country,,,hell no we dont,,but we do it,,every day,,we do it,and why? who knows,,,your ungrateful,,and i for one think that we should drop you on your butts,,,we fought our own war for independence for YEARS,,you want help? what more can we give you than the sons and daughters we have already given,,,what more can we give you than than to let our own go without so we can do for you,,,please,,,maybe you would like us to be CHEARLEADERS,,just sit here and yell go people go people,,,with your bad self!! Now look you have me upset now,,and i was all pacifist,,im fine,,my higher power will calm me and make me logical again,,,PEACE BE WITH YOU In a message dated 2/7/2009 9:35:24 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,

Wow Robbie, from priesthood to Atheist. that’s a huge jump. although I adhere to no specific religion, my roots are Judeo-Christian, and I have picked Truths here and there from other religions. Karma from Hinduism and Buddhism and and other things from Buddhism. I have had too many miracles in my life to not believe in God, but I would never condemn you for not believing.

Robbie, You will find that i never give up. a little like a dog and its bone.

@Charlotte

You know the difference in terms very well but you still don’t know that progressive people can’t be ignorant like monkey on trees.Ignorance is lesser in lives of truly progressive persons.How come in your case people are progressive yet ignorant?It’s a poor attempt on your part to whitewash the awful truth.Please come up with better ’civilized’ arguments.

No darling it is not a sign of PRIMITIVENESS it is a sign of IGNORANCE,,there is a difference,,these people are progressive but ignorant,,and i dont mean they dont know,,,i mean they dont care,, In a message dated 2/8/2009 4:33:17 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,

Do not presume to tell me what i do or do not think,,i tried very hard to explain that by ignorant i did not mean non-learned people they were just ignorant and arrogant,,and that i meant no RACE,,,only some people in SOME RACES,,,progressive means moving forward,,Primitive means more like cavemen,,,I DID NOT MEAN EITHER,,,im saying the particular group of people INSIDE SOME RACES ARE AZZ H****,,,is that plain enough for you??? In a message dated 2/8/2009 8:29:58 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,

I found this article in another news group i subscribe to,,i thought i would like you all to read it too,, Iran still suffering human rights abuses, says Amnesty Amnesty International reports arbitrary arrests, torture and use of death penalty in Iran 30 years after Islamic revolution * _Ian Black_ (http://www.guardian.co.uk/profile/ianblack) , Middle East editor * _guardian.co.uk_ (http://www.guardian.co.uk/) , Monday 9 February 2009 14.54 GMT * _Article history_ (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/feb/09/iran-humanrights#history-byline) _Human rights_ (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/human-rights) abuses including arbitrary arrest, _torture_ (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/torture) and extensive use of the death penalty still persist in _Iran_ (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/iran) , Amnesty International warned today on the 30th anniversary of the Islamic Revolution. Kurds and members of the Baha’i faith are ”particularly harshly treated”, especially in provincial areas where scrutiny by human rights groups is harder, according to a _new report_ (http://www.amnesty.org/en/library/info/MDE13/010/2009/en) . Seven Baha’i community leaders are currently detained without charge or trial in Tehran’s Evin prison and have not been granted access to lawyers, it says. Amnesty is not allowed to carry out research in Iran, which is one of only a few countries, including China, Myanmar, North Korea and Turkmenistan, that are routinely closed to human rights organisations The ”vast scope and scale” of violations in the early years after the 1979 revolution declined during the period of reform under President Mohammed Khatami from 1997 to 2005, the report adds. But hopes for improvement ”have been firmly crushed” since the hardline President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad came to power in 2005. Last December the authorities closed down the Centre for Human Rights Defenders, founded by the Iranian Nobel peace prize laureate Shirin Ebadi. ”A host of vaguely worded laws and practices relating to national and public security, slander, defamation of state officials, insults to Islam and other aspects of freedom of expression, association and belief are used to prosecute those who dissent, including those seeking to promote and protect human rights,” said Amnesty. Punishments for such ”offences” range from imprisonment, flogging and fines to the death penalty. Individuals may also be sentenced to deprivation of their rights, such as a ban on employment in certain sectors or enforced residency far from their homes. Amnesty also protested that the ”vast majority” of serious violations committed since the revolution have never been investigated – especially the 1988 prison massacres of political prisoners. Recently the authorities bulldozed a mass grave site at Khavaran, near Tehran, where many of those executed are thought to be buried. Relatives of those killed have been arrested and imprisoned after gatherings to commemorate the executions. Iran, said Amnesty, is second only to China in the number of executions recorded annually. At least 346 people were executed in 2008, including child offenders. Two executions were carried out by stoning. Legislation passed last year extended the application of the death penalty to audiovisual crimes such as the production of pornographic material. Other legislation currently being debated would introduce _capital punishment_ (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/capital-punishment) for apostasy, heresy and witchcraft. Methods of ill-treatment described by former detainees include beatings, suspension from a height, insults, threats of rape, sexual abuse, electric shocks, sleep deprivation, being forced to stand in stress positions and solitary confinement ”People in Iran are still enduring a catalogue of human rights abuses, 30 years after the Islamic Revolution,” said AI International UK director Kate Allen. ”Amnesty continues to record executions, torture and the arrest of people who voice dissenting opinions. The Iranian authorities should turn their back on torture and unfair trials and release all prisoners of conscience.” **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075×1218550342x1201216770/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=66 8072%26hmpgID=62%26bcd=febemailfooterNO62)

@Charlotte, There are no rights human or other in Islamic states like Iran.